It can dull your edge, cause pitting, and damage the structural integrity of your knife. When we plot toughness vs edge retention on a log scale instead we get a straight line that is a better visualization of toughness differences. Most production knives are more than thick enough at the edge to accommodate a regrind to significantly improve performance, and its a lot cheaper than buying a new knife a lot of the time. In a pocket knife the total amount of steel is rather small. And below shows a chart of carbide hardness, the equation we created to predict edge retention based on edge angle, hardness, and carbide volumes, and then the chart showing the good correlation: TCC (mm) = -157 + 15.8*Hardness (Rc) 17.8*EdgeAngle() + 11.2*CrC(%) + 14.6*CrVC(%) + 26.2*MC(%) + 9.5*M6C(%) + 20.9*MN(%) + 19.4*CrN(%). The most traditional models of pocket knives have different parts, such as the handle and cutting performance. On the flip side D2 steel is much harder than other steels in this category such as 154CM or ATS-34 and as a result holds its edge a little better. This is a bit of a guess because I cant find un-notched Charpy data on it. Not impractical fantasy knives, but these two knives that have a col look to them. An example of data being processed may be a unique identifier stored in a cookie. By rejecting non-essential cookies, Reddit may still use certain cookies to ensure the proper functionality of our platform. If the steel is overheated in austenitizing, very large reductions in toughness are possible. 14C28N The table shows combinations of knife steel properties for different classes of steel. Anyway, astute comment, but edge retention does mean a lot in woodworking. They lack the carbon necessary to hold an edge, even during mild use. Stainless steels are another subset of high alloy tool steels that have enough chromium in them to have stainless levels of corrosion resistance. Oftentimes steels that are reported to be difficult to sharpen are in fact improperly heat treated and challenging to deburr. Its found on a large number of traditional-style folders. The bump in hardness comes from precipitation of fine carbides in the steel, which include chromium carbides. Working closely with our factory the heat treating of this steel has been perfected resulting in excellent performance for the price. Who looking for latest, high carbon, then the Kershaw Natrix Copper Pocketknife. This is a very important factor when selecting a steel for your knife blade, especially if you plan on spending a lot of time outdoors in an area with high humidity.. S30v is a higher ranked steel and considered a true Stainless Steel, with a 14% . Thanks to its very high hardness (64-66 HRc compared to the average of 58-62 HRc), ZDP-189 can be ground thinner and sharpened less often. REX 121 is a powder steel produced by Crucible. I would like to see the rating and performance on test of the Chinese Steels, that some people use to say its cheap garbage, like 3Cr13MoV, 4Cr13, 4Cr13Mo, 4Cr14MoV, 5Cr15MoV, 6Cr13MoV, 7Cr17MoV, 8Cr13MoV, 9Cr13MoVCo, 9Cr18MoV, 9Cr19MoV, and the 14cr14MovNB to see if they are similar, worse or better than the steels that they copyi believe we gonna have some good unexpected results. 14C28N knives offer better toughness than D2 knives. This is the basis on which I do the ratings rather than a linear scale. Should you continue to scroll further, you may find yourself lost in a seemingly endless list of knife steel wealth and knowledge. MagnaCut Mid-Range Steels 154CM D2 N690 VG-10 CTS BD1N 14C28N A2 1095 O1 H1 Budget Steels 440C CTS-BD1 440A 420 8Cr13MoV AUS-8 The Steels Should you continue to scroll further, you may find yourself lost in a seemingly endless list of knife steel wealth and knowledge. 1.4116 D2 knives offer higher edge retention than 14C28N knives, which is attributed to the high carbon elements and hardness of D2. Rex 121 23.5% vanadium carbide, 4% molybdenum/tungsten carbide (M6C), Conventional Ingot vs Powder Metallurgy Carbide Structure. If the properties of a knife meet your knife needs and it has the above characteristics, then it qualifies as a quality knife. In that case the difficulty in sharpening would be the inverse of the edge retention rating. The critical difference between these two sheets of steel is their corrosion resistance. Is that regression line (or other trend line?) Even people that are aware of your work still do knife rankings and pass them off as steel rankings. Properties: 14C28N: D2: Edge retention: 4/10: 7/10: Ease of sharpening: 6/10: 3/10: Corrosion resistance: 4/10: 4/10: Toughness: 6/10: 6/10: CIVIVI Knives Elementum Folding Pocket Knife 2.96" D2 Satin Blade . Pretty interesting that regrinding a knife you already have can seemingly take its performance to that of significantly better steels. Many steels are very similar to one another but go by different names from different manufacturers. Sandvik 14C28N steel offers excellent corrosion resistance, exceptional toughness, good edge retention, and is easier to sharpen. As a side note, pure tungsten carbide blades (from brands like Sandrin) can have very high levels of edge retention, but they are not made of steel. Thanks again for everything you're doing, it's a tremendous resource. Kershaw, Spyderco and Schrade are among some of the popular users of this steel.. 14C28N. 9cr18mov vs 14c28n. This list is not exhaustive, so check out some of our rating tables for more information on whatever steel youre interested in. Its used for combat knives, bushcrafting knives, and other applications where having a supertough blade trumps the need for edge retention and corrosion resistance. There are significant differences between them because 14C28N is stainless steel, while D2 steel is a semi-stainless tool steel. Maxamet is one of two current high-hardness kings, with HRc marks in the high 60s approaching 70, a hardness usually only seen in carbide steels. I think they are complementary and you should watch/read both. Socould you please clarify which steel is the outlier and which is the line>. AEB-L is a non-powder steel produced by Swedish steelmaker Uddeholm. I've heard d2 is miles better and i dont want to pay 90 for the p135 and get a significantly inferior blade to paying 110 for the D2 Rat. Vg10 and cpms45vn same toughness at same hardness ? W-2 Knife Steel Benefiting from 0.2 percent vanadium content, W-2 holds an edge well and is reasonably tough. Heat treatment and edge geometry can mean more for knife performance than the specific steel used in the knife. 7:00am-5:00pm, 10am-7pm Tuesday - Friday Do honing steels as used on kitchen knives actually do anything useful? https://knifesteelnerds.com/2020/05/01/testing-the-edge-retention-of-48-knife-steels/, Unfortunately it all comes down to marketing on everybody involved: Industry, knifemakers, users. That way you can get into the steel ratings quickly. 3) catra is (as far as i know) the only accredited (iso/en) testing method. [Steel Knife Review], Best survival knife sword: 5160 steel Review, What is VG 10 pocket knife? One of the more common stainless steels, and one readily available in lots of different places worldwide, AUS-8 is a decent all-around steel. Tough steel can handle impacts without gross chipping or a tip breaking off. A Japanese powder steel, ZDP-189 is essentially the polar opposite of 3V its uber-hard instead of uber-tough. Hes already done a three part series on cryogenic treatment: In its most basic form, steel is just iron and carbon, but people have been studying, experimenting with, and perfecting steel with other elements for specific applications for millennia. Plus the charts get messier, and I dont always have data for a wide range of hardness values. The biggest factor for cost of knife steel is whether it is produced with conventional ingot technology or powder metallurgy. Nitro V vs 14C28N Last but not least, 14C28N contains comparatively more vanadium elements which makes the carbides more harder and strong, which gives 14C28N a better edge retention. Read more. Different companies can vary some between each other making the same product, while a single company is going to be more consistent. With a high level ofedge retention, corrosion resistance, and toughness, it does most everything quite well. It will take you more time and energy to get a sharp edge, but your efforts will pay off because the blades hold the edge longer. The consent submitted will only be used for data processing originating from this website. My other knives are a Real Steel E77 8cr14mov. It confirms what I always suspected and what anyone could have figured out by reading the technical data. D2 steel is high carbon steel with no extra addition of Cr or Mo, that's why it is prone to corrosion. MagnaCut has the lowest chromium of any of the below steels but all of its chromium is in solution (no chromium carbide) and the fact that it has no chromium carbide also gives it the maximum level of corrosion resistance for a given amount of chromium. its like with cars, most of them are not a corvette or a porsche. I do not have rust issues with it (as long as I have a good finish) some heavy stonewashed finishes rust easier. The knives are ideal for both indoor and outdoor use. its like with cars, most of them are not a corvette or a porsche. Even metallurgists can have a difficult time estimating properties just based on the elements. a burr might have developped on some of the steels and not on others, it might have ben reduced or even removed by the process. This is a virtually stain-proof steel suitable for all sorts of aquatic environments. These properties make steel a good choice for making kitchen, fishing, and everyday knives. But in my experience, it has been nothing but great. Would be great if some manufactures changed their steels based on this information. To choose the best knife for you between the 14C28N and the D2, look at the steel properties and ensure that they suit your knife needs and lifestyle. The ultra high corrosion resistance steels Vanax or LC200N max out around 60-61 Rc instead. In many cases, the D2 edge sharpness may last a bit longer. Toughness is the resistance to chipping or breaking. you can easily buy a $500 knive made out of 14c28n, which has nothing in it besides cr and a trace of ni. the problem is in the innumerable combinations of grades, grains sizes and coatings available. One important concept I want to hammer home is that there isnt one property that is most important. Wear resistance, be it high or low, is the most significant determining factor in ease of sharpening. The unique process used to make LC 200N results in a fine-grain structure. A proprietary steel and heat treat developed by Busse Knives, INFI is an excellent performer and one of the best steels for big choppers on the market. at least it has some vanadium over the 420hc. Knifemakers use dozens of steel types to create knife blades. Vanax gives up some toughness and hardness vs MagnaCut for saltwater levels of corrosion resistance. It mainly made for knife and it high in Chromium for excellent corrosion resistance. Though technically not a stainless steel at least 14% chromium, and D2 usually has 12% its relatively corrosion-resistant. LC 200N is an elite performer, with high hardness, high toughness, and off-the-charts corrosion resistance. Fix-It Sticks Compact Ratcheting Multi-Tool Review, Toughness, Wear Resistance, Corrosion Resistance. Water is a severe quenchant that can often lead to warping or cracking. Cookie Notice Therefore, if your priority is a knife with the best toughness on the market, you can never go wrong with the varieties of 14C28N. Steels do come at various price points, however, depending on the cost of producing them and the cost for the knife company to work with them. These steels favor edge retention over all else. But I think it would have much higher toughness than any of the steels on the chart. It also tops out around 60-61 Rc like LC200N and needs relatively careful heat treating to even be that hard. Heat treatment refers to the heating and cooling steps employed to achieve your knifes proper balance of attributes. 14C28N Vs D2 . I was wondering if the 14c28n sample was also prequenched like the AEB-L toughness samples? Below shows the results of MagnaCut testing vs other steels where it is labeled as New Steel.. Different heat treats have emerged over the years, but one has risen to the top as the best:Bob Doziers D2. Not as tough as the best carbon steels, it's tougher than most . Edge retention is the ability of a knife to maintain cutting ability during cutting. The claim is that they align the blades edge, pushing any slightly rolled over bits back into place and thus preserving the cutting ability of the knife for longer. Its exceedingly tough and relatively hard, but its not stainless. If you're stuck between 14C28N and 440C, here's a breakdown of the pros and cons of each type of steel. With toughness it is a bit harder to link to only one article as I dont really have a summary of all of the toughness testing that we have done. This is basically a retrofit of a very old steel, adding more carbon to the recipe of 420 (hence the HC for high carbon). 14C28N steel is the improved version of 13C26 with better rust resistance. If you look at the chart you may notice that at high toughness levels if you increase edge retention by only a relatively small amount you get very big drops in toughness. However, to choose the best knife for you must consider all the properties, including toughness, edge retention, corrosion resistance, and ease of sharpening. You do not expect the prices to be as low as those of low-end knives, but you will get high performance at affordable prices with either. It would be great if you wrote a basic rundown of cryo treatment of knife steels, whats involved, the effects, interactions with other treatments like tempers, alloys that benefit the most, etc. 14c28n steel would be a great pick thanks to its high retention and corrosion, it would be great for a normal EDC knife. Flashlights run the gamut of price and quality. Some of our partners may process your data as a part of their legitimate business interest without asking for consent. We use a subsize, unnotched chapy test with 2.5 x 10 x 55 mm dimensions. Instead, Vargo titanium uses a unique material called sintered titanium-ceramic alloy. It has enough water-fighting properties that it can be used in marine environments. I did a test with knives in 440A (stainless), D2 (high alloy steel with some corrosion resistance), and 1095 (no corrosion resistance). Its very tough and exceptionally corrosion-resistant. Im a woodworker and Im interested in making better performing plane irons and chisels. Liquid steel is sprayed through a tiny nozzle, solidifying into a powder. Steels that are higher in hardness and wear resistance are usually lower in toughness. I reserve the right to change my ratings based on new information. Now that is power planer blades, but the principle stands, less carbon and alloy isnt the best for wood working and Id use a steel like 26C3 (1.25% C .30%Cr) for my hand tools and temper them to around 62 hard and use the best angle for wood shaving, not the best angle for cutting rope. It is most useful for steels with large amounts of carbide but also helps to be able to add certain carbide types. Sign up to receive GearJunkie content direct to your inbox. It doesnt hold an edge well, but its so easy to sharpen that you can get it back to razor sharpness in a few minutes. This is a nitrogen steel that is extremely corrosion-resistant so much so that its used in knives designed to go in salt water, among the most difficult conditions knives are used in. I have a few examples below for steels that I have ranges of hardness tested for both toughness and edge retention. Moreover, the blades will serve you longer because they do not wear out faster with frequent use and sharpening. Its high hardness and relatively high toughness also make it an excellent choice in cutlery. . Ive found that most makers harden S30V too much, making it prone to chipping at the edge. Despite its wonderful performance, XHP is actually not terribly expensive compared to other high-end, all-around performers. Corrosion is not just about cosmetics and rusting, however, but can also affect edge performance. Become a patron and gain access to awesome rewards including early access to articles or a Knife Steel Nerds mug! It had better than expected corrosion resistance due to the lack of chromium carbides, a behavior also seen in MagnaCut. Non-stainless steels can be heat treated to 66 Rc or even higher depending on the particular steel. 1. It improves wear resistance and hardenability. Vanax and LC200N are unique in reaching 59-60 Rc while being very stain resistant. Poor availability may effectively increase cost of steel. Id like to quote some of your toughness, edge retention and corrosion resistance for balanced midfield steels, including yours, in some data tables. However, it falls behind the Bohler steel in corrosion resistance. On the positive side, they are very easy to forge and grind. For example, see the chart below for how much edge retention can change with edge geometry for a single steel (in this case 154CM and CPM-154). Rust Test includes:D2 from Bestech and WE1095 from shop8Cr13Mov from Spyderco420HC from BuckWalmart knifeY Start (Marked D2)Follow me at:Twitter: https://twi. Note that corrosion is detrimental for the cutting edge. worldwide, even the chinese have an equivalent (8cr13mov). In particular, I really care about the toughness / hardness part. It boasts an incredible ability to continue cutting long after it seems dull. And its not made of steel. Thank you for putting this together, incredibly useful! Ease of sharpening refers to how difficult it is to remove material with a sharpening stone. 14c28n vs D2 Steel. In use, its very similar to 440C and VG-10. Im writing a book about choosing a knife for EDC. Now that we know what each factor represents, we can see how the steels rank against one another. It can withstand a lot of wear and tear. You also reported 8.6 for 440A in that post, compared to 8.5 in this post. Steels with only vanadium carbides have the best balance of properties because the hardness of carbide matters for edge retention but doesnt for toughness. Its not bad, but you can find better in the market at the same price. Read more about how it works here. For these reasons D2 steel is a good for smaller folding knives, but is not ideal for large fixed blades such as dedicated choppers and large survival knives. Thanks in advance, Simon, For hard use everyday cutting in a packing company, Everything from fome, cardboard, tape, thick plastics, And plastic wrap that is against metal. Everyone has their own opinion on what they deem the best folding EDC knife. In fact, its not technically a steel at all, as it uses titanium and nickel. Now 14c28n is IMO the best budget steel out there. (I think the 420HC estimate in that post was based on simulation or computer modeling, since you didnt spray testing any of the 400 series.) Short of purposeful abuse, its all but impossible to chip an edge on an INFI blade. CPM 10V And while it can be hard depending on the heat treat, I have found it easily chips, causing microscopic dings in the edge when hardened to a high level on a thin blade. We should be suspicious of anyone who is claiming very high edge retention with a steel at low hardness and a small amount of carbide. Metallurgy and Testing of Knives and Steel. GearJunkie Copyright 2013 2023. grivory Jesse Jarosz, a custom maker from Montana, regularly uses AEB-L. D2 seems to run at high hrc. what does a cvn of 40 v.s 20 mean? 440C steel 14C28N is stainless steel, and its knives offer excellent rust resistance and toughness than D2 steel. Spyderco announced Native 5 Salt with magnacut, but I saw test of magnacut with salt water and it grows corrosionso Salt with magnacut could be a flop. Is Vancron SuperClean a good choice for a chef knife? It's like the difference between average 420HC and Buck's 420HC with the Bos heat treatment, only from a better starting point. Because of the material difference, the blades differ in toughness, edge retention, corrosion resistance, and ease of sharpening. In fact Id be delighted to have your experience checking my thinking!

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